0. We are Still Testing... Nothing is Final
We are hesitant about communicating details because we change often based upon testing. Some of the specific details described below will almost certainly change before launch. (The GA Alpha & Beta Testers can attest to that). That said, with all the concerns & questions about Loadouts I wanted to share some of our design intent and what we are currently testing.

1. A loadout is NOT limited to only 2 weapons; at least not the way many people would define weapons)
Just to clarify, our current LoadOuts consist of: a specific armor (light, medium, or heavy), an in-hand weapon, another in-hand weapon, a belt slot (that might hold grenades or mines for example), a Pack (cloaking or jamming as examples), and a melee weapon. So, there are currently 5 usable items per Load-Out. And the in-hand weapons do not follow a traditional Primary/Secondary metaphor. It is much more of a per loadout balance decision; so one loadout might include two particularly powerful in-hands for example. Maybe this was already clear to people or maybe it wasn't. And the LoadOut spec above is simply what we are testing now; it could change.

2. Per match you can access multiple load-outs.
How many is still TBD.
-> EDIT/ADDITION - As of the July 18th build we allow players at a working Inventory Station to select from any/ALL of their unlocked load-outs within that match.

3. Loadouts can be acquired thru gameplay or purchase.
Our general stance on items that affect gameplay is to provide a path for players to earn them thru gameplay and/or acquire them more quickly thru purchase. As a player becomes more experienced with Tribes: Ascend they will generally have access to more load-out choices and be more flexible in terms of more tools (load-outs) at their disposal. Again, a player might play their way to that large selection of loadouts or pay to accelerate that progress.

4. Our goal is for all Loadouts to be viable/balanced.
Certainly players will prefer some over others based upon playstyle or preferred role. But it is not our intent for free players to get 'gimped' loadouts and that paid loadouts would be more powerful.

5. Easier for new players to grasp. Most definitely.
We have hosted quite a few external playtesting groups in studio (NOT Tribes veterans but both casual and competitive shooter players). We have seen them try to pick up the game with the 'original' style equipping and also with our Loadout based system. And we know without a doubt that this system is easier for new players for grasp. That doesn't mean everything, but it means a lot.

6. More interesting for long-term and competitive players. TBD - but that is certainly our intent.
We had no illusions that this system, on-paper, would be seen as "better" by veterans of previous Tribes games. It is clearly different from a system that worked well in previous Tribes games, and that veterans are used to and love. We get that. But we have to design for what we think will be most interesting to seasoned players of Tribes: Ascend - a game that we intend to have a large player population at various skill levels.


7. A framework that allows new weapons to be added in a balanced fashion.
This is a MAJOR consideration. The set of weapons we offer in early Beta will be a subset of what we offer at Launch. The set we offer at Launch will be a subset of what we offer one year later. Given an ever expanding universe of weapons, how do we a. maintain balance b. not let the game devolve into just a few, very generic, swiss-army knife uber-builds that are generally considered best; and c. release those new weapons with decent frequency so players can get their hands on those new tools and discover great uses for them? We need an architecture to support ongoing new weapon updates in a balanced manner. Previous Tribes games used three armor choices as their constraint-set and architecture. We are choosing Load-Outs as our constraint-set and architecture.

Ultimately you'll need to play Tribes: Ascend to decide for yourself; and guess what, you'll be able to... for FREE.

Thanks for that!

hmmm...

You know what? I'll be able to live with this if it means a grappler is down the road at level ' x ', where snipers and such can deal with it; without it being 'overpowered' or w/e as it could be at level 1.






(still think 3 in hand would be better )

Sorry but this is still a 2 weapon loadout. Melee weapons + tribes don't go well together, you are making it seem exactly like GA in my opinion. The closest thing you ever had to a melee weapon was the shocklance, and that was a 1 shot kill from behind.

Maybe get rid of melee weapons, give all loadouts the spinfusor instead.




I still think this could have a significantly bad impact on the game. Especially if you plan on this being in any way a competitive game. During competitive games players drop, teams need to adapt their strategies. Having only 3 loadouts limits the depth of strategy and gameplay.

What if you need extra players repairing or bolstering defence? What if they don't have the "Repair" loadout.

The only way I can see this loadout thing working is if you have enough of them in a battle, or even if you have 2 fixed loadouts (LD, TM/repair) + 3 that you can choose.

Please try and get an open beta as soon as possible so competitive players can try out what you are proposing, and listen to our feedback. Because on paper, it simply restricts the game, restricts gameplay and restricts creativity.



Having loadouts is not the big issue, it's the restrictions on those loadouts that is the issue (2 weapons, limited per match). Tribes has always had loadouts, it's not a new concept.



The problem with this statement is it goes against all of your other decisions.

Restrictive loadouts and 2 weapons make the game less interesting and less competitive, not the opposite. Most of the vocal tribers here were competitive at some level, we loved the depth and creativity the original games had, but you seem to be just watering it down.



Ultimately you'll need to play Tribes: Ascend to decide for yourself; and guess what, you'll be able to so... for FREE.

Why leave this to last minute? Make it open beta, get more players in there NOW testing it, rather than AFTER the decisions have been made. It's going to be f2p anyway, so get players in there.

You have heaps of willing players here ready to test it and provide feedback, give us that avenue.

Thank you for clarifying some of the things that are being said on this board. Unfortunately, you confirmed something I was hoping wouldn't be true: the 2 weapon limit holds true for all armors, including heavy. I was sort of assuming...hoping...it'd just be for the light armor. That third melee slot should be optional, where we can specify whether we want a sword or an actual gun in that spot. It's still a 2-weapon(gun) limit with the way it currently is.

I'm glad you're open to change, because I'd really like to see the 3-5 weapon slot(not including packs, grenades or mines) return.

No. Everyone understands what you meant by 2 weapons. Don't treat us like morons and tell us there are "5 useable items".

Fact is, you're limiting weapon options...real weapons, such as the disc launcher, grenade launcher, and chaingun. You know, the mainstays of the series.

How about treating your player base like they're smarter than a 14 year old that's played nothing but Halo and Call of Duty? We can handle more weapon options than 2 at a time.

Also, how do you propose that a Light Defense flag chase without a disc launcher to disc jump with? (unless you've taken that out too in the name of "simplifying" it for new players)

Thanks for the clarification Todd. It sheds some light on what you guys are thinking. At the same time, it seems that yu will have load outs that won't have the spinfuser included - Iam having a difficult time grasping that. Playing Tribes without the disk launcher is like playing tribes without skiing or jetpacks IMHO.

I was really pissed at first when I learned this stuff, especially when it was just dropped on us in the review with no announcement. I thought they must not care what we think. But they are going outa their way to explain this stuff to a few angry posters. Their goal is to get tons of people anyhow, we are just a drop in the bucket compared to what they want. I still don't know if this will work at all. I am going to try and go back to my pre f2p positive attitude and see what happens.

You want to shape the game around loadouts, you deserve to have that chance. But you have to understand and this problem is only going to be compounded by new players who are frankly going to be terrible at your game, there may be weapons that are required just to survive in the game. New players will be spending their time trying to learn your game on the ground, walking around. They won't be jet packing right away, they don't have the talent to ski, and they certainly don't have the talent to mid air anyone above them when they are faced with a situation of going up against someone familiar with the tribes series. This is going to mean to avoid the most frustration they are going to have to choose certain weapons, if they are available that is. They may even be reluctant to try other roles because they don't have that weapon that their skill dictates they need to protect themselves. This all is remedied with tweaking the number of weapons you can carry and I am sure that will be tested and tested some more. There is certainly a balance to be had out there between promoting variety and the tools you need to enjoy the game.

Thanks, Todd. This is high level and, like you said, subject to change, but it is a helpful start on the loadout discussion. What you outlined will certainly change the way Tribes is played. It's difficult to know if that change will be for the better or worse at this point. I think we all want the Tribes experience we had years ago, be it T1, T2, or T:V and we assume any variation from that experience is a negative.

After basically saying we should wait and see I am going to go ahead and supply a critique. Instead of having a dedicated melee weapon why not make it a "novelty weapon" slot? There are certain Tribes weapons that don't fit standard combat roles like the spinfuser or plasma rifle do. I'm talking about weapons like the shocklance which is a melee weapon but also the ELF gun which is simply a support gun, or the laser rifle which saps all your energy and is ineffective in a close quarters duel. Heavies could put a mortar in this slot. I'll also mention the grapple because I think that would make Yidbon happy.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy breaking down our feedback as much as we enjoy tearing apart what you tell us.

I could accept the loadouts if it was more than 2 weapons and every loadout included the disc-launcher.

Like someone said, Tribes without the disc-launcher is like Tribes without skiing or jetpacks.